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	<title>Comments on: DnD vs WoW</title>
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	<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/</link>
	<description>A comic about two blue cats who play World of Warcraft, and their gamer human. Written and drawn by Mary Varn.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:24:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Vrykerion</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6290</link>
		<dc:creator>Vrykerion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been DMing a game for about 6 months now, and there&#039;s one thing I absolutely love in D&amp;D over WoW: Consequences.  WoW (being an MMO) has a problem in that whatever you do, it simply resets after you&#039;re done.  Expose Lady Prestor as the vile Onyxia? Well, she&#039;s back to just being trustworthy ol&#039; Lady Prestor in not a half hours time.  In D&amp;D (depending on your DM I suppose) something could have earth shattering consequences!! (literally in some cases) And they STAY that way (once again at DM&#039;s discretion).

However, I must ask, since your heroes are now level 4 and you have the pic of the battlemat, did you just happen to finish Keep on the Shadowfell? :D (And why is Kalarel sacrificing chip dip?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been DMing a game for about 6 months now, and there&#8217;s one thing I absolutely love in D&amp;D over WoW: Consequences.  WoW (being an MMO) has a problem in that whatever you do, it simply resets after you&#8217;re done.  Expose Lady Prestor as the vile Onyxia? Well, she&#8217;s back to just being trustworthy ol&#8217; Lady Prestor in not a half hours time.  In D&amp;D (depending on your DM I suppose) something could have earth shattering consequences!! (literally in some cases) And they STAY that way (once again at DM&#8217;s discretion).</p>
<p>However, I must ask, since your heroes are now level 4 and you have the pic of the battlemat, did you just happen to finish Keep on the Shadowfell? <img src='http://www.npccomic.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  (And why is Kalarel sacrificing chip dip?)</p>
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		<title>By: Mister Rik</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6279</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister Rik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 00:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Erg. In my first point, I meant &quot;fighter&quot;, not &quot;warrior&quot;.

/facepalm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erg. In my first point, I meant &#8220;fighter&#8221;, not &#8220;warrior&#8221;.</p>
<p>/facepalm</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mister Rik</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6278</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister Rik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 00:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I loved D&amp;D (played v.3.5), and miss playing it. But there are a few things I don&#039;t miss, and these are areas where I feel WoW has the advantage:

• Rules/mechanics requiring human interpretation - when I first started playing, the others in my group had many years of experience on me. So I made a point of ... /thoroughly reading and learning the rules/. I was the only one in the group that could be considered &quot;Internet-savvy&quot;, and I made a point of frequenting the official D&amp;D forums and asking questions when I wasn&#039;t clear on something. I ended up understanding the 3.5 rules better than most of my group, and became endlessly frustrated by misinterpretations that were breaking our game. It was terribly frustrating watching the player of a dual-wielding ranger going through a crowd of enemies like a lawnmower, taking out a half-dozen enemies in one turn because the DM completely misunderstood how dual-wielding worked, and then on my turn my warrior, of the same level as the ranger, got to walk up to a single enemy and go &quot;whack&quot;. This was at around level 6. The way the DM had interpreted the dual-wielding rules, this ranger would have been making something like 16 basic attacks per round by level 16, and that&#039;s before factoring in the Cleave and Greater Cleave feats. This can&#039;t happen in WoW.

• DM had been playing the game since 1st Edition in the 70s ... and was constantly mixing up 1st and 2nd Edition rules into our 3.5E game. In particular, rules regarding spellcasters taking damage during combat and how that affects their spellcasting. His 1st Edition interpretation was rendering spellcasters completely useless. I soon discovered why none of the more experienced players wanted to play wizards/sorcerers.

• DM letting the group get too large (7-8 players!), and not adjusting the encounters accordingly. Encounters designed for 4 players (DM used published adventures - he didn&#039;t make his own) were presented as-is to the larger group, with the corresponding lower XP and treasure because the same amount of reward was being split between twice as many people. As a result, we blew through encounters at early levels, but by 7th or 8th level we were falling behind the enemies we were facing, both in level and in gear. And that led to frequent death, and each time you&#039;re resurrected you lose a level ... you can see how that goes. Pretty soon you&#039;ve got a group of 6th-level characters facing 11th-level enemies.

• Finally, in WoW, the enemies aren&#039;t intimately familiar with every tool your character has at his/her disposal, and so they don&#039;t show up prepared to counter absolutely everything you can throw at them. Your fire mage can adventure without worrying that every single monster she faces is going to &quot;just happen&quot; to be protected by a Resist Fire spell.

It got to the point where I just wasn&#039;t having any fun, and so I dropped out rather than turn into the complaining rules lawyer of the group.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved D&amp;D (played v.3.5), and miss playing it. But there are a few things I don&#8217;t miss, and these are areas where I feel WoW has the advantage:</p>
<p>• Rules/mechanics requiring human interpretation &#8211; when I first started playing, the others in my group had many years of experience on me. So I made a point of &#8230; /thoroughly reading and learning the rules/. I was the only one in the group that could be considered &#8220;Internet-savvy&#8221;, and I made a point of frequenting the official D&amp;D forums and asking questions when I wasn&#8217;t clear on something. I ended up understanding the 3.5 rules better than most of my group, and became endlessly frustrated by misinterpretations that were breaking our game. It was terribly frustrating watching the player of a dual-wielding ranger going through a crowd of enemies like a lawnmower, taking out a half-dozen enemies in one turn because the DM completely misunderstood how dual-wielding worked, and then on my turn my warrior, of the same level as the ranger, got to walk up to a single enemy and go &#8220;whack&#8221;. This was at around level 6. The way the DM had interpreted the dual-wielding rules, this ranger would have been making something like 16 basic attacks per round by level 16, and that&#8217;s before factoring in the Cleave and Greater Cleave feats. This can&#8217;t happen in WoW.</p>
<p>• DM had been playing the game since 1st Edition in the 70s &#8230; and was constantly mixing up 1st and 2nd Edition rules into our 3.5E game. In particular, rules regarding spellcasters taking damage during combat and how that affects their spellcasting. His 1st Edition interpretation was rendering spellcasters completely useless. I soon discovered why none of the more experienced players wanted to play wizards/sorcerers.</p>
<p>• DM letting the group get too large (7-8 players!), and not adjusting the encounters accordingly. Encounters designed for 4 players (DM used published adventures &#8211; he didn&#8217;t make his own) were presented as-is to the larger group, with the corresponding lower XP and treasure because the same amount of reward was being split between twice as many people. As a result, we blew through encounters at early levels, but by 7th or 8th level we were falling behind the enemies we were facing, both in level and in gear. And that led to frequent death, and each time you&#8217;re resurrected you lose a level &#8230; you can see how that goes. Pretty soon you&#8217;ve got a group of 6th-level characters facing 11th-level enemies.</p>
<p>• Finally, in WoW, the enemies aren&#8217;t intimately familiar with every tool your character has at his/her disposal, and so they don&#8217;t show up prepared to counter absolutely everything you can throw at them. Your fire mage can adventure without worrying that every single monster she faces is going to &#8220;just happen&#8221; to be protected by a Resist Fire spell.</p>
<p>It got to the point where I just wasn&#8217;t having any fun, and so I dropped out rather than turn into the complaining rules lawyer of the group.</p>
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		<title>By: Aet</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6276</link>
		<dc:creator>Aet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If its a small group and scheduling is a factor, services like Meetup.com can make life so much easier in terms of scheduling.

Weekend games are almost always better then weeknight games.  Weeknights works for college kids and people with similar schedules, but if there is even a little bit of drift, they fall apart fast.  

If you are part of a game that runs on an irregular basis, then you should have someone acting as a secretary/historian/blogger who can maintain a history of what has happened to the group each session.  A campaign blog is a powerful tool, especially if the last time the group met was last month and memory gets cloudy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If its a small group and scheduling is a factor, services like Meetup.com can make life so much easier in terms of scheduling.</p>
<p>Weekend games are almost always better then weeknight games.  Weeknights works for college kids and people with similar schedules, but if there is even a little bit of drift, they fall apart fast.  </p>
<p>If you are part of a game that runs on an irregular basis, then you should have someone acting as a secretary/historian/blogger who can maintain a history of what has happened to the group each session.  A campaign blog is a powerful tool, especially if the last time the group met was last month and memory gets cloudy.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: maryvarn</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6273</link>
		<dc:creator>maryvarn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the suggestions. We have sort of worked out that sundays are best for us. But usually the problem is that people are going out of town a lot on weekends, so we just find a sunday that we&#039;re all in town for.
We&#039;ve tried weeknights, but it doesn&#039;t really work for us. One of the players has to get up at 5am for his job, thus going to bed at 9pm or 10pm. And two others (and sometimes myself) often have to work late, until 9pm or later. Even if no one works late, no one is home until 7pm at the earliest, and then we&#039;d only get two hours in before our up-at-5am buddy falls asleep. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the suggestions. We have sort of worked out that sundays are best for us. But usually the problem is that people are going out of town a lot on weekends, so we just find a sunday that we&#8217;re all in town for.<br />
We&#8217;ve tried weeknights, but it doesn&#8217;t really work for us. One of the players has to get up at 5am for his job, thus going to bed at 9pm or 10pm. And two others (and sometimes myself) often have to work late, until 9pm or later. Even if no one works late, no one is home until 7pm at the earliest, and then we&#8217;d only get two hours in before our up-at-5am buddy falls asleep. <img src='http://www.npccomic.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lizard</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6272</link>
		<dc:creator>Lizard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The key to playing D&amp;D as an adult is to act like an adult. Instead of it being &quot;Something we do when we have some free time&quot;, you make it a scheduled, adult, activity, no different than bowling night or movie night or any other thing adults all manage to get together to do. You discuss what night works best with your friends and they adjust their schedules to fit, emergencies excluded.

(I&#039;d also recommend going for 3-4 hour game on a weeknight instead of a 5-7 hour game on a weekend. Because it&#039;s generally easier to schedule for, you do more gaming overall.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key to playing D&amp;D as an adult is to act like an adult. Instead of it being &#8220;Something we do when we have some free time&#8221;, you make it a scheduled, adult, activity, no different than bowling night or movie night or any other thing adults all manage to get together to do. You discuss what night works best with your friends and they adjust their schedules to fit, emergencies excluded.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;d also recommend going for 3-4 hour game on a weeknight instead of a 5-7 hour game on a weekend. Because it&#8217;s generally easier to schedule for, you do more gaming overall.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aet</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6268</link>
		<dc:creator>Aet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s also the skill versus randomness illusion factor.  

In D &amp; D, you can set the stage for your actions, but ultimately it comes down to a random number.  The randomness is a palpable thing you can feel in your hand.

In WoW, the randomness is concealed to provide the illusion of skill.  A bit of lag, a disconnect, crits at the wrong time, and you and your group loses a challenge.  But this loss is almost always blamed on lack of preparation/talent, rather then something random that didn&#039;t fall your way this time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also the skill versus randomness illusion factor.  </p>
<p>In D &amp; D, you can set the stage for your actions, but ultimately it comes down to a random number.  The randomness is a palpable thing you can feel in your hand.</p>
<p>In WoW, the randomness is concealed to provide the illusion of skill.  A bit of lag, a disconnect, crits at the wrong time, and you and your group loses a challenge.  But this loss is almost always blamed on lack of preparation/talent, rather then something random that didn&#8217;t fall your way this time.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkofJin</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6248</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkofJin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 00:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t forget dice rolling as a plus for D &amp; D.  The physical act of rolling the dice that determines your character&#039;s fate is part of what makes D &amp; D special.
The anticipation and the suspense that builds when you need to roll a high number for a saving throw or needing to hit a monster so you can land the killing blow before it kills you is not easily duplicated in WoW.
One of the difference is that repercussions for death is much lighter for WoW than D &amp; D.  In WoW, if you die or the raid wipes, you just rez and it costs a few gold to repair, in D &amp; D, the cost of a rez if you can get one is much higher and could cost you stat points.
Also D &amp; D gives you a lot more spells, but forces you to choose what spells you can carry for the day.  There&#039;s a lot more strategy involved there and choosing the spells is a lot more open ended than in WoW.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget dice rolling as a plus for D &amp; D.  The physical act of rolling the dice that determines your character&#8217;s fate is part of what makes D &amp; D special.<br />
The anticipation and the suspense that builds when you need to roll a high number for a saving throw or needing to hit a monster so you can land the killing blow before it kills you is not easily duplicated in WoW.<br />
One of the difference is that repercussions for death is much lighter for WoW than D &amp; D.  In WoW, if you die or the raid wipes, you just rez and it costs a few gold to repair, in D &amp; D, the cost of a rez if you can get one is much higher and could cost you stat points.<br />
Also D &amp; D gives you a lot more spells, but forces you to choose what spells you can carry for the day.  There&#8217;s a lot more strategy involved there and choosing the spells is a lot more open ended than in WoW.</p>
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		<title>By: Aet</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6223</link>
		<dc:creator>Aet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;how would that work?&quot;

The text-based MU*s figured this out 12+ years ago.  Basically, your level is tied to your performance.  You gain XP by the scenes you do through a player controlled voting system.  There are other bonuses for special scenes, combats, and plots.  Levelling was non-competitive, but also not visible.  You had no way of knowing relative levels between two players, but it rarely mattered (oh, the tale of the arrogant young knight who deigned to have his way with the blacksmith&#039;s daughter!  How was he to know that the blacksmith was a former grand master of the blade ...)

The result of the system was that older characters tended to be all high level.  Lower-level characters were usually either new players, old alts, or longtime players who didn&#039;t participate in anything.  The proverbial &#039;Destructocow&#039; player, if he existed, was invariably the lowest-level character and a well-deserved pariah: in a system that requires suspension of disbelief more then patience, that kind of player usually either gave up fast, or started griefing and bought it faster.  The highest-level characters were rarely those that lived by the sword: they were politicians, entertainers, and other social butterflies.  

The system had its perks, but also its flaws.  It depended heavily on referees/game masters to set scenes, establish continuity, and maintain the overall story.  A good team meant a community of hundreds (and pre-2000, that was something).  A bad team wasn&#039;t worth knowing.  If you think guild drama is bad now, I have stories that defy belief.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;how would that work?&#8221;</p>
<p>The text-based MU*s figured this out 12+ years ago.  Basically, your level is tied to your performance.  You gain XP by the scenes you do through a player controlled voting system.  There are other bonuses for special scenes, combats, and plots.  Levelling was non-competitive, but also not visible.  You had no way of knowing relative levels between two players, but it rarely mattered (oh, the tale of the arrogant young knight who deigned to have his way with the blacksmith&#8217;s daughter!  How was he to know that the blacksmith was a former grand master of the blade &#8230;)</p>
<p>The result of the system was that older characters tended to be all high level.  Lower-level characters were usually either new players, old alts, or longtime players who didn&#8217;t participate in anything.  The proverbial &#8216;Destructocow&#8217; player, if he existed, was invariably the lowest-level character and a well-deserved pariah: in a system that requires suspension of disbelief more then patience, that kind of player usually either gave up fast, or started griefing and bought it faster.  The highest-level characters were rarely those that lived by the sword: they were politicians, entertainers, and other social butterflies.  </p>
<p>The system had its perks, but also its flaws.  It depended heavily on referees/game masters to set scenes, establish continuity, and maintain the overall story.  A good team meant a community of hundreds (and pre-2000, that was something).  A bad team wasn&#8217;t worth knowing.  If you think guild drama is bad now, I have stories that defy belief.</p>
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		<title>By: Aet</title>
		<link>http://www.npccomic.com/2010/06/17/dnd-vs-wow/comment-page-1/#comment-6222</link>
		<dc:creator>Aet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 19:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.npccomic.com/?p=2056#comment-6222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The earlier additions are different in a lot of ways.  The big one you notice as a player is complexity of combat.  You go from having things that can be summed up on a 3x5 card to constantly looking through your PHB.  4.0 is the gentlest on new players.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The earlier additions are different in a lot of ways.  The big one you notice as a player is complexity of combat.  You go from having things that can be summed up on a 3&#215;5 card to constantly looking through your PHB.  4.0 is the gentlest on new players.</p>
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